Domain valuation scam targets Sedo users
If you want to skip the background scroll down to my entertaining correspondence with the scammer, as he tries to hook me in.
Sedo is a service that allows owners of domain names to sell them in much the same way that eBay allows you to sell goods, either for a fixed price or at auction. It also provides an escrow service so that a transaction is secure (they get the money and the domain and then swap them between buyer and seller).
Domain sellers on Sedo have recently been targeted in the following way:
1. The seller places a domain for sale on Sedo.
2. The scammer scans Sedo for new domain listings and targets those listings.
3. The seller receives an email from the scammer. An important characteristic of this email is that it is not via the Sedo service - the scammer looks up the registered owner of the domain and contacts them directly through the domain's contact email.
4. This first email is the "hook". It offers a large sum of money for the domain and waits for the domain owner to take the bait.
5. Once the domain owner shows an interest, the scammer explains that he is very interested in the domain but cannot pay any money for it without a third party valuation service. He explains that he has researched valuation services and only a few are reliable and cost-effective. Gradually he narrows it down to one service that he insists on using.
6. If the buyer bites (what's a small sum to pay for the riches offered by the scammer?), then they will pay for the valuation service and submit the result to the scammer.
7. At this point the scammer no longer responds to emails. They got what they wanted - the valuation fee.
Here's my correspondence with the scammer:
Email #1 - the bait:
================================================
From: murphy@eliteinvestment.net
To: danny
Subject: [my domain name for sale (date sent)]
Hello,
I'm interested in your domain in the subject line.
Investing in domains is a profitable business. We are in real estate business. Sometimes we buy, sometimes we resell for making a profit.
Looking forward to do business with you.
Regards,
Andrew Murphy
Vice President
Elite Investment Group
================================================
Commentary:
- Notice how there is no mention of where this company ("Elite Investment Group") is based. I will press this point with "Andrew Murphy" later, but he wouldn't respond.
- At the time of writing there was no content in the domain that the email originates from (eliteinvestment.net)
- Further research shows that eliteinvestment.net is registered by Proxy, so the owners obviously want to hide who they are.
Email #2 - I bite:
================================================
From: "Danny"
To: Murphy
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
Thanks, are you wishing to make an offer on my domain?
Email #3 - Trap is laid out:
================================================
From: Murphy
To: Danny
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
Sorry for delay with answer. Our family was celebrating newborn child of my sister.
Can you accept 5,000 USD?
Do you sell domain with a web site or just the name?
Domain without content is ok with me. Web site is not necessary.
Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain appraisals. Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It's
very
important for me in terms of reselling too. But we must engage a valuation company with REAL manual service. So I will only accept valuations from independent sources I and my partners trust.
To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies.
Please check this blog with suggestions from other sellers and buyers: http://domainblog.007sites.com/587412.htm
If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% - 15% discount.
After you send me the valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to obtain it) we'll continue our negotiations.
What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire transfer, PayPal.com or something else?
Hope we can come to an agreement fast.
Looking forward to your reply.
================================================
Commentary:
- Notice how the scammer tries to lead you to believe he relies on reputable companies by sending you to an obviously planted forum.
- The company he wants you to focus on is www.DomainExplorer.org - but he will narrow it down to that company later. For now he wants you to think the name of the actual valuation company doesn't matter. He just needs a reputable one.
- Notice that he is also talking about methods of payment to lure you in.
- Interestingly, the grammar is a bit wonky and inconsistent, which suggests this 'script' was adapted and 'perfected' by different people.
Email #4 - I test his determination
================================================
From: "Danny"
To: "'Murphy'"
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
I only transact through Sedo, and do not require the use of appraisal companies who are usually just a scam.
If you would like to buy this domain I would encourage you to put an offer through on the Sedo site.
Thank you and have a good weekend!
Danny.
Email #5 - He responds and refocuses on the appraisal :
================================================
From: Murphy
To: Danny
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
Sedo is a good broker and we can use it for transfer/transaction. Unfortunately , Sedo is not acceptable as an appraiser because your names are listed with them and they are not independent. They are interested in earning 10% commission on every sale. I need appraisals from a company which is not interested in selling your domains.
I heard many appraisal companies often made inaccurate appraisals. So I cannot accept appraisal from each and every site. I will only accept appraisals from independent appraisal companies I know and trust.
================================================
Commentary:
- He persists, because I engaged. As long as I am engaged, there is still a chance to hook me.
- Notice how I didn't mention domain appraisal services, but he keeps coming back to that point, as if it was a crucial part of domain sales. In actual fact, a domain is worth what a seller is willing to pay for it, and oftentimes pricing it is more of an art than a science, with a mix of luck.
Email #6 - I don't bite. What will he do?
================================================
From: "Danny"
To: 'Murphy'
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
I thank you for your response, but I have no interest in these appraisal services, or in doing business with you this way. If you wish to place a bid on my domain you are welcome to do so on the Sedo site.
Regards for a good weekend,
Danny.
Email #7 - It's all about the valuation, of course, but let's narrow it down:
================================================
From: Murphy
To: Danny
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
We both need independent valuation first.
Sellers always provide buyers with valuations. This is a common practice.
I don't trust $14 services like that GoDaddy's valuation service. Nobody will do a research for $14. We need a real manual service.
I researched several companies and here are the results:
I wanted to engage AccurateDomains.com as appraiser but looks like this company has very bad reputation Just read this blog http://accuratedomains.blogspot.com/
So I'm not going to accept this fraudulent service.
I also considered www.Afternic.com, but now it's clear their service is not reliable enough. Just read this: http://www.igoldrush.com/links3.htm "Capsule Review: After lots of complaints, Afternic is no longer a recommended service. We will re-review the service in the near future."
Another complaint http://www.out-law.com/page-1630
I was told about manual research service from http://www.DomainMart.com. It costs - $200/hour.
Many experienced sellers suggested me www.DomainExplorer.org as a trustworth manual service. They charge per name not per hour. I've read only positive comments about them.
================================================
Commentary:
- He seems to go back to the script. This is the mail he would use to narrow the victim down to domainexploere.org, where he wants me to go.
- I decide to repeat my previous email exactly and see if he would notice.
Email #8 - I repeat myself, will he notice?:
================================================
From: "Danny"
To: "'Murphy'"
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
I thank you for your response, but I have no interest in these appraisal services, or in doing business with you this way. If you wish to place a bid on my domain you are welcome to do so on the Sedo site.
Regards,
Danny.
Email #9 - He keeps going... It's all about the valuation:
================================================
From: Murphy
To: Danny
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
It's a big risk to proceed without professional valuation. I already spoke to industry experts and they prohibited me to do business without valuation.
Without manual valuation nobody will buy. You'll sit on your domain for years in this case, paying renewal fees to your registrar. Just think about it. So sooner or later, you'll have to obtain an appraisal. Why waste time now?
As a seller, you can use a valuation certificate to sell names to other buyers. I cannot do the same because I don't keep control over your domain.
I'm still interested in your domain. Hope you'll change your position. I simply don't want to take additional risks.
Thank you for understanding. I'm looking forward to do business with you.
Email #10 - I decide to confront him:
================================================
From: Danny
To: "'Murphy'"
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
For someone in the domain reselling business you seem awfully focussed on the appraisal of one specific company whose domain is registered via proxy and that does not have a physical address, and appears on several scam warnings.
You also never mentioned where your company (elite Investment) is registered, and your own domain isn't populated.
Entertaining. Care to comment?
Regards,
Danny.
Email #11- This is clearly off script - so he sends one last ditch (none of my questions are answered):
================================================
From: Murphy
To: Danny
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
No deal without appraisal from a trusted source. This simple rule has saved me a lot of money and time. Feel free to contact me when you change your position and let's do business the right way.
================================================
FURTHER SCAM INFORMATION
This pattern has been repeated in quite a few cases, but with changing names, often using the same script, for example: the same scam email (with the same text) was sent from:
Robert Gardos, CEO Elite Investment
Steven Campanella, Vice President, Elite Investment Group
Paul Rancour, CEO, ELI LLC
Eric Jorgensen, Vice President, Elite Invest Network
Tom Myers, 'Independent Cybersquatter'
Jeffrey Burnstein, CEO of OBS LLC (burnstein@theonlinebrokerage.com)
(source).
Robert Gardos, VP, TGS Technologies (gardos@toughguy.net) (source)
Further examples are here, here , here and here.
SEDO'S RESPONSE:
I wrote to Sedo saying: "I was wondering if you were aware of this sort of scam happening, and if so, whether you would consider placing some kind of warning for other users of your site. It can be very easily misleading."
Their response was:
"We are aware that there are unscrupulous persons around who will contact domain owners to try and get them to order an appraisal or sell the domain.
At Sedo, we encourage customers to use our appraisal service which is much more trustworthy.
You can always privacy protect the WHOIS record for your domain to avoid receiving these kind of emails in the future. You can do this through your registrar."
So, no, they don't really think they should warn their users, and simply suggest we use their services. Doh!
If you have been contacted in this way feel free to add your experience here as a comment, especially noting the names used in your case, so that they come up in Google searches and warn others.
Related posts:
August 10th, 2009 - 04:17
Friends care because they are there:
This was sent to me on 08/08/2009 for a company of such …. http://WWW.theonlinebrokerage.com
Watch as they are to attack back.
We were celebrating newborn child of my cousine. I apologize for delay with my answer.
Can you accept 15,000 USD for the following package:
clinic-express.com
drestranhoamor.com
epral.com
escolasconducao.com
Euroteste.com
euroexpansao.com
familyjackson.com
Do you sell domain with a web site or just the name?
Domain without content is ok with me. Web site is not necessary.
Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain appraisals. Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It’s very important for me in terms of reselling too. But we must engage a valuation company with REAL manual service. So I will only accept valuations from independent sources I and my partners trust.
To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies.
Please check this blog with suggestions from other sellers and buyers:
http://discussdomains.007sites.com/Archive/8063751.htm
If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% – 15% discount.
After you send me the valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to obtain it) we’ll continue our negotiations.
What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire transfer, PayPal.com or something else?
Hope we can come to an agreement fast.
Looking forward to your reply.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Miguel Angelo Patricio”
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 8:27 AM
Subject: RE: clinic-express.com (sent 08/05/09)
Hello Friend.
I hope that everything is running well.
I will not tell you how I am interested in selling the domain before waiting
for their proposal.
This is my list of domains to which I will buy and then turn on power
projects.
At the moment I am more to reverse the 2nd
I hope you enjoy some call special attention to the clinic-express.com,
burakasomsistema.com and badlieutenant.com, search on google and will have
great answers …. great eheheheh
Strong hug and I await your response on whether to buy some or not.
No more at present
Yours sincerely
Miguel Angelo Patricio
Sorry for my bad English … :-)
adp-adubosdeportugal.com
algarvepromotion.com
AGEL-GLOBAL.COM
AKI-AH.COM
AOLARGO.COM
AUTOCONFIANCA.COM
ANTONIOAUGUSTUS.COM
badlieutenant.com – NEW Sound Music – HOT
BESTNUDE.NET
bosford.net
burakasomsistema.com – NEW Sound Music – HOT
cafevia.com
cabaretdacoxa.com
cabaretdacoxa.info
calve.us
capoeirabrasil.net
casaspt.com
checkin365.com
clinic-express.com
drestranhoamor.com
epral.com
escolasconducao.com
Euroteste.com
euroexpansao.com
familyjackson.com
familyjackson.info
fonedafone.com
graofino.com
imobiliariadeluxo.com
industriaporto.com
Ipbeja.COM
infogps.net
infogps.info
jackson3.us
jacksons3.com
jacksons3.info
k2o3.com
katorz.com
Kuiky.com
kurbanbeach.com
MOHAMEDBINISSAALJABER.com
Miguelpatricio.com
naterciapintor.com
nexpresso.net
optimustag.com
oprimeiroeunico.com
petairways.us
PETAIRLINE.INFO
provaoral.com
pmscoffee.com
portugalhosting.com
primeiroeunico.com
rubberwings.com
samsungmobile.us
sequestros.com
snacksupplies.com
turismoequestre.net
tiagobettencourt.com
TSUNAMYPOWERSYSTEM.COM
tmnmoche.com
tns-euroteste.com
tns-global.us
tulicreme.com
ultrasportugal.com
winpt.com
XICORACAO.COM —- Project
yornextravaganza.com
—–Mensagem original—–
De: lander@theonlinebrokerage.com
Enviada: quarta-feira, 5 de Agosto de 2009 16:31
Para: XXXXXX@XXXXX.com
Assunto: clinic-express.com (sent 08/05/09)
Hello,
Are you interested in sale of your domain? Please name your price.
We are in hosting and domain business. But we are very interested in
Internet names and web sites too.
If you have other domains for sale feel free to send your list.
Looking forward to do business with you.
Regards,
Daniel Lander
CEO
TB Hosting LLC
========================================================
NOTICE – This communication may contain confidential and privileged
information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by
unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message
and deleting it from your computer.
========================================================
August 12th, 2009 - 00:14
And it goes on.
I had posted here before, when I got the last round of fake appraisal emails. Here’s their newest version:
From – Tue Aug 11 08:34:13 2009
Delivered-To:
Return-Path:
Received: from LINKSYS (domainstoreonline.net [64.186.128.191])
resaledomain@gmail.com
Message-Id:
From: “Domain Resale”
Subject: Domain name RUBY-ON-RAILS.INFO
T
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Organization: Domain Resale
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:01:53 -0300
Dear Sir,
we are interested to buy your domain name RUBY-ON-RAILS.INFO and offer 65% of the appraised market value.
As of now we accept appraisals from either one of the following leading appraisal companies:
sedo.com
pddomains.com
accuratedomains.com
If you already have an appraisal please forward it to us.
As soon as we have received your appraisal we will send you our payment (we use Paypal for amounts less than $2,000 and escrow.com for amounts above $2,000) as well as further instructions on how to complete the transfer of the domain name.
We appreciate your business,
Domain Resale
August 12th, 2009 - 00:15
Oh, I forgot to mention, I haven’t owned that domain for quite some time. So they were barking up the wrong tree anyway…..
January 20th, 2010 - 18:26
Here is my experience 3 days after listing on Sedo.
friedman@thedomaininvestors.com to me
show details Jan 19 (1 day ago)
Hello,
We buy and sell domains and web prjects. What is your price for the domain?
If you have other domains for sale feel free to send your list.
Looking forward to do business with you.
Regards,
Daniel Friedman
President
Online Investment & Consulting LLC
—
Good day Daniel,
Knowing the huge potential for the Blastoff Network, I registered this domain with the intention of building an information and signup portal and my web designer is scheduled to begin the project by mid-Feb and I am anxious to have him begin. However, I might be interested in selling the domain if the price was right. What is your offer?
Sincerely,
Trevor
—
Friedman to me
show details 4:19 AM (10 hours ago)
Can you accept 5,000 USD?
Do you sell domain with a web site or just the name?
Domain without content is ok with me. Web site is not necessary.
Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain appraisals. Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It’s very important for me in terms of reselling too. But we must engage a valuation company with REAL manual service. So I will only accept valuations from independent sources I and my partners trust.
To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies.
Please check this blog with suggestions from other sellers and buyers:
http://www.domainexplorer.org/Archive-09-2009/8137251.htm
If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% – 15% discount.
After you send me the valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to obtain it) we’ll continue our negotiations.
What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire transfer, PayPal.com or something else?
Hope we can come to an agreement fast.
Looking forward to your reply.
—
Hello Daniel,
Thanks for your e-mail.
I did use your suggestion and use swiftappraisal.com and it suggested $6500-$9700. Although all components of the valuation were very clear, one component was more of a guess. For how big a market is this domain to be used for. I put a big market as I feel Blastoff will be a popular way people will buy things online. However, if it is not as popular as I think it may be and it is only good for a medium sized market, then it values it a bit less.
However, I do feel there is tremendous potential with this program and the opportunities for making money (especially at 10 levels deep) is deep and may be worth more than $5000 to me. I love the domain. Anyone going online interested in joining Blastoff will surely be going to the internet looking for more info. Joiningblastoff.com just seems like a natural fit and will be developed into a website giving more info on the program and of course, many benefits to joining blastoff – and then my referral link scattered all throughout, of course.
But I’ve always been a “one bird in the hand is better than two in the bush’ kind of guy so how does $6500 sound? No website is created yet, so it would just be the domain.
My preferred method would, of course, be escrow.com
Looking forward to your reply.
Trevor
—
Friedman to me
show details 1:40 PM (44 minutes ago)
It’s a standard practice to show independent valuation to buyers/resellers.
Nobody will do business without it. I’m a businessman and have no intention
of changing rules which help both parties to avoid additional risks.
Of course, investors never take into account auto-generated valuations. So
manual valuation is a “must” too.
I read the following information about appraisals at:
http://www.domainexplorer.org/Archive-09-2009/8137251.htm
Thank you for understanding. I’m looking forward to do business with you.
—
and this is where red flags popped up and I found this site. I e-mailed him telling him I am no longer interested in selling.
January 21st, 2010 - 15:20
Hey Travor,
I also got email from this person Danial Friedman yesterday only. It is exactly the way you have mentioned above word to word. I was feeling great that after listing my domains in Sedo at the 2nd day itself i got an offer Wow. But one thing was again and again blinking in my mind Sedo never gives your contact details to buyer until he makes an offer so definitely he did whois check up and found my email and instead of making an offer why is he contacting me directly. I made a search in Google about it and got this Blog. Hope this blog will save others from such spammers
February 6th, 2010 - 22:49
Message 1:
Hello,
We buy and sell domains and web pr®jects. What is your price for the domain?
If you have other domains for sale feel free to send your list.
Looking forward to do business with you.
Regards,
Sebastian Brucker
CEO
Web Investment & Consulting LLC
Message 2:
Can you accept 5,000 USD?
Do you sell domain with a web site or just the name?
Domain without content is ok with me. Web site is not necessary.
Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain appraisals. Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It’s very important for me in terms of reselling too. But we must engage a valuation company with REAL manual service. So I will only accept valuations from independent sources I and my partners trust.
To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies.
Please check this blog with suggestions from other sellers and buyers:
[URL REMOVED - TD]
If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% – 15% discount.
After you send me the valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to obtain it) we’ll continue our negotiations.
What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire transfer, PayPal.com or something else?
Hope we can come to an agreement fast.
Looking forward to your reply.
February 9th, 2010 - 23:16
Same email coming from Sebastian Brucker, email brucker@thedomaininvestors.com
Thought it was suspicious because domain thedomaininvestors.com was registered only this past December (less than 2 months ago).
February 10th, 2010 - 05:32
I just got several emails from the scammer too. HE won’t buy my domain name without an appraisal… it’s a good way to get appraisals sold ! I worked it out on the first email, and I said, that he is welcome to get an appraisal, and he insists that it’s my job to do so. What a load of crap ! Not even a good try ! what a weenie !
don’t respond to this creep brucker@thedomaininvestors.com
Just put him on a crap load of email lists…
- John
February 10th, 2010 - 15:39
Ditto re brucker@thedomaininvestors.com. And huge thanks for this blog!
February 11th, 2010 - 15:47
hi! Thanks for brucker@thedomaininvestors.com. Have I today too a nice Mail.
February 11th, 2010 - 19:30
oh God. I guess I just got scammed. Help. He had me get an appraisal from researchappraisals. spent $175. What should I do? I forwarded him the appraisal info. HELP!
February 11th, 2010 - 20:52
Jennifer, you can report him to the FBI, but as for your money, it is gone.. I got scammed too.. Chris
February 12th, 2010 - 16:46
more hilarious Chris is that i have a family member in the FBI and one that works for the CBBB. Now you would think that would make me more aware! UGH! This guy is still emailing me like this deal is going to happen. Brucker! I am disputing the transaction… reporting everyone along the line. I will post if I get it remedied. Thanks Chris for making me feel better. My husband thinks I’m an idiot! LOL
FYI… other people involved
http://www.researchappraisals.com
info@namesaleshop.com
Sara Almudhaf Customer Support
they are using SWREG Inc to do the secure transaction through PayPal. I have already called paypal to make them aware. They gave me phone numbers for the company – none of them work.
February 12th, 2010 - 18:13
Well, Jennifer, you can tell your hubby that a guy who is fairly savvy in these things got scammed too, to the tune of $95.00.. What they do next, is “buy” the domain, and send you a money order that is bogus.. It looks real, and cashes real, but then when it comes back, you are left holding the bag.. and without your domain too. These guys belong in jail!
February 13th, 2010 - 06:06
Add this one to the list of suspects:
“samuelson@thedomaininvestors.com
Brian Samuelson
CEO
WHC Web Hosting Consulting & Investment LLC”
February 14th, 2010 - 18:57
Thanks for this heads up, I was just contacted by:
Brian Samuelson
CEO
WHC Web Hosting Consulting & Investment LLC
and doing a search on the company´s name I came across this post. Thank you for making this and saving me time and frustration! :)
February 14th, 2010 - 20:23
ye i just got Brian Samuelson email too.
February 14th, 2010 - 21:55
Just got a “Brian Samuelson” email as well. Thank God for this blog!
February 14th, 2010 - 23:16
Hi,
I have set up some sedo listings recently and I got very much similar mails which are very much fit in the outlined scam script:
Scamster’s mail#1:
———————-
From: samuelson@thedomaininvestors.com [mailto:samuelson@thedomaininvestors.com]
Sent: 14 February 2010 13:52
To: Jeno Jakab
Subject: nightlycash.com (sent 02/14/10)
Hello,
We buy and sell domains and web pr®jects. What is your price for the domain?
If you have other domains for sale feel free to send your list.
Looking forward to do business with you.
Regards,
Brian Samuelson
CEO
——–
I replied him with some of my listed names and the guy came back with almost the same text which Danny gave with his case.
Scamster’s mail#2:
————————
Jeno,
Can you accept 3,000 USD?
I’m also interested in
onlinewhiskeystore.com
celebritybeaches.com
Do you sell domain with a web site or just the name?
Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain appraisals. Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It’s very important for me in terms of reselling too. But we must engage a valuation company with REAL manual service. So I will only accept valuations from independent sources I and my partners trust.
Without the independent valuation from a trusted source we don’t spend a penny. This is our financial policy. So our offer is just a rought estimate. If the appraisal comes higher we are ready to offer a bit more. If it comes lower we will discuss the price with you again.
To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies.
Please check this blog with suggestions from other sellers and buyers:
http://www.domainexplorer.org/Archive-09-2009/81963527.htm
If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% – 15% discount.
After you send me the valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to obtain it) we’ll continue our negotiations.
What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire transfer, PayPal.com or something else?
Hope we can come to an agreement fast.
Looking forward to your reply.
——————
I replied that I had heard about domain appraisal scams so to buy my domains he would be encouraged to place bids on the sedo listings. He came back exactly as in the Danny’s case.
Scamster’s mail#3:
————————
——————————————————————————–
From: Samuelson [mailto:samuelson@thedomaininvestors.com]
Sent: 14 February 2010 22:35
To: Jeno Jakab
Subject: Re: nightlycash.com (sent 02/14/10)
It’s a standard practice to show independent valuation to buyers/resellers.
Nobody will do business without it. I’m a businessman and have no intention
of changing rules which help both parties to avoid additional risks.
Of course, investors never take into account auto-generated valuations. So
manual valuation is a “must” too.
I read the following information about appraisals at:
http://www.domainexplorer.org/Archive-09-2009/81963527.htm
Thank you for understanding. I’m looking forward to do business with you.
————
Currently, we are here.
February 14th, 2010 - 23:21
Hi,
I to just received an email from Brian. Thanks for posting this info, glad I did some research.
Thanks
Gavin
February 15th, 2010 - 00:22
2010/2/14
Hello,
We buy and sell domains and web pr®jects. What is your price for the domain?
If you have other domains for sale feel free to send your list.
Looking forward to do business with you.
Regards,
Brian Samuelson
CEO
WHC Web Hosting Consulting & Investment LLC
========================================================
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information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
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unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message
and deleting it from your computer.
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BE CAREFUL BECAUSE IS FOR REGISTRY SIMILAR DOMAINS THAN YOURS
February 15th, 2010 - 07:43
Ok, just got this:
Hello,
We buy and sell domains and web pr®jects. What is your price for the domain?
If you have other domains for sale feel free to send your list.
Looking forward to do business with you.
Regards,
Brian Samuelson
CEO
WHC Web Hosting Consulting & Investment LLC
Email it came from: samuelson@thedomaininvestors.com
So, now that I checked it out and know its a scam, its time to take these people for a ride by sending numerous emails that make them THINK they’re about to get me and a wad of cash and a truck load of other customers hahaha. Bahahahah.
February 17th, 2010 - 15:43
Add one to the list for “brucker@thedomaininvestors.org.” Same script initially only I engaged him long enough to get a real trail and eventually the script just repeated itself only the email begins with a new amount. (First “offer” was for $15k, then circled around to $5k)
It looks like it might be auto-generated….
February 17th, 2010 - 15:56
I had a little fun by replying to him/it with the following:
“Mr .Brucker, AKA “Samuelson”, “Brian Samuelson”, “Sebastian Brucker”, “Danial Friedman”:
After considerable research and consultation with the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigations, I have readily determined that this entire email conversation qualifies as fraud and hereby demand that you cease and desist in any further communication with me regarding this matter.
All of this correspondence, as well as other corroborating evidence gathered through research, has been handed over to the FBI and local authorities for further investigation.
I advise you to seek immediate legal counsel in preparation of your defense. You’re going to need it.
Michael”
February 17th, 2010 - 15:57
It won’t go anywhere, but it felt good. :)
February 18th, 2010 - 08:51
that sucks, i honestly thought i was $25,000 richer!
February 18th, 2010 - 23:55
Brian Samuelson contacted me as well today. Here we go, Google find this!
——————————————————————
samuelson@thedomaininvestors.com to me
show details 8:41 AM (10 hours ago)
Hello,
We buy and sell domains and web pr®jects. What is your price for the domain?
If you have other domains for sale feel free to send your list.
Looking forward to do business with you.
Regards,
Brian Samuelson
CEO
WHC Web Hosting Consulting & Investment LLC
=========================================
Email 2
=========================================
I’ve discussed the price with my partners.
Can you accept 5,000 USD?
Do you sell domain with a web site or just the name?
Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain appraisals. Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It’s very important for me in terms of reselling too. But we must engage a valuation company with REAL manual service. So I will only accept valuations from independent sources I and my partners trust.
To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies.
Please check this blog with suggestions from other sellers and buyers:
http://www.domainexplorer.org/Archive-09-2009/81963527.htm
If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% – 15% discount.
After you send me the valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to obtain it) we’ll continue our negotiations.
What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire transfer, PayPal.com or something else?
Hope we can come to an agreement fast.
Looking forward to your reply.
February 21st, 2010 - 08:37
thank u for your information danny..
i also contacted by “Brian Samuelson” yesterday
he send me email just like @Icehawg
but i don’t bite…
February 21st, 2010 - 10:41
Yeah, I too got bitten in the past and paid some 18 Euros. Today I got another from a “Brian Samuelson”. I googled his name and came here. Exact some scenario. The idiot!
February 22nd, 2010 - 20:18
UPDATE… I actually got the transaction reversed. company was SWREG inc…. FRAUD! My favorite thing that happened was them emailing me a number to call at their company that was a non-working number. Then when I emailed back and said I want to speak with someone they told me they are in Europe so there is a time difference. Ummm… it wasn’t that no one answered… it’s a non-working number! Scammers!
February 22nd, 2010 - 21:28
Yayyyyyy!!! Congratulations Jennifer! did you turn them in to the FBI as well?
February 23rd, 2010 - 18:58
SWREG, Inc. is probably just the payment processor and not actually associated (other than as a service provider) with this clown hocking bogus appraisals. They would show on your statement as the company reversing the charge because they are the clearing house that is registered with Visa/MC, etc. SWREG seems to have a bit of a track record of providing payment clearinghouse services to less than scrupulous companies, particularly foreign ones. :(
February 25th, 2010 - 00:39
the actual ip of the scammer: 213.140.225.228
that’s the block those messages generates from
inetnum: 213.140.225.0 – 213.140.226.255
netname: CTC-Odincovo-NF_ATM
remarks: INFRA-AW
descr: Odincovo netflow pool
country: RU
admin-c: AVK103-RIPE
tech-c: AVK103-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by: MNT-CTC
source: RIPE # Filtered
person: Andry V. Kiselev
address: Joint-Stock Central Telecommunication Company
address: 29/2 Narodnogo Opolcheniya str.,
address: 123154, Moscow
address: Russia
remarks: phone: +7 095 5761099
phone: +7 495 5761099
remarks: fax-no: +7 095 4085299
fax-no: +7 495 4085299
e-mail: kiselev@centelcom.ru
nic-hdl: AVK103-RIPE
source: RIPE # Filtered
remarks: modified for Russian phone area changes
% Information related to ‘213.140.224.0/19AS25515′
route: 213.140.224.0/19
descr: DELEGATED BLOCK
descr: Joint-Stock Central Telecommunication Company
descr: RU
origin: AS25515
mnt-by: CTC-MNT
source: RIPE # Filtered
kind regards
February 26th, 2010 - 04:01
Ya i’m glad i did some research on this guy before emailing him back a second time. I havent gotten scammed but the latest name he is going under is Robert Warner, and he is claiming to be from Warner Interenet Investment LLC. Dont waste your time or money people. Sounds like they need to be caught.
March 2nd, 2010 - 15:12
I too just received an email several days ago from ‘Robert Warner’ asking how much I wanted for a domain. The body of his email was just as mentioned above in this thread. He is insisting I get an appraisal done before he makes an offical offer. I’ve gone back and forth with him approx 5 times, but the exchanges got more bizaar as they went along.
March 2nd, 2010 - 16:17
I think this guy may be in Linkedin, so be careful of Robert Warner’s in Linkedin as well.
March 3rd, 2010 - 17:58
I’ll admit when I first saw this, I didn’t see it as a scam. I thought it was just an attempt to boost sales for the guy’s appraisal business. Either way, I’m no fool.
I also like to engage scammers, so my results were very similar to yours, but my favorite response was when I told him that if a buyer really wants an appraisal, they can purchase one themselves from any company they choose. He wrote back with:
“It’s a big risk to proceed without professional valuation. I already spoke
to industry experts and they prohibited me to do business without
valuation..
Without manual valuation nobody will buy. You’ll sit on your domain for
years in this case, paying renewal fees to your registrar. Just think about
it. So sooner or later, you’ll have to obtain an appraisal. Why waste time
now?
As a seller, you can use a valuation certificate to sell names to other
buyers. I cannot do the same because I don’t keep control over your domain.
I’m still interested in your domain. Hope you’ll change your position. I
simply don’t want to take additional risks.
Thank you for understanding. I’m looking forward to do business with you.”
I just loved how he skips right over the point I made about buyers getting their own appraisals and goes right into he speel again.
Anyway, here were the keywords in my correspondence:
Email: bortfeld@domainsecondhand.com
Domain: domainsecondhand.com
March 5th, 2010 - 20:03
Yesterday I got mailed by this guy called :
Robert Warner
CEO
Warner Internet Investment LLC
Mail :
Subject : Your domain name
Hello,
We buy and sell domains and web pr®jects. What is your price for the domain?
If you have other domains for sale feel free to send your list.
Looking forward to do business with you.
Regards,
Robert Warner
CEO
Warner Internet Investment LLC
========================================================
NOTICE – This communication may contain confidential and privileged
information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by
unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message
and deleting it from your computer.
========================================================
March 5th, 2010 - 20:04
Hello Mr. Warner,
I was wondering if you are interested in purchasing the domain via Sedo interface. Right now I have ordered an appraisal for the domain [my domain.com] [I am kind of new to this field so I can't trust my own judgement :) ], but feel free to quote the price at which you are willing to buy it [the appraisal process takes 7 days to complete]. I have a couple other domains for sale as well, I can give you the list link on Sedo, if you want, or send you the list in an excel sheet.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Regards,
Sushant
March 5th, 2010 - 20:05
From : Warner
Sedo is a good broker and we can use it for transfer/transaction.
Unfortunately , Sedo is not acceptable as an appraiser because your names
are listed with them and they are not independent. They are interested in
earning 10% commission on every sale. I need appraisals from a company
which is not interested in selling your domains.
I heard many appraisal companies often made inaccurate appraisals. So I
cannot accept appraisal from each and every site. I will only accept
appraisals from independent appraisal companies I know and trust.
March 10th, 2010 - 07:53
I was just contacted as well by: pendzinski@thedomaininvestors.com
Told him to get lost and find a real job.
Thanks everyone.
March 12th, 2010 - 14:45
here is my correspondence with Mr. Robert Warner from “Warner internet investment LLC”:
[ThatDanny Comment: Katie's email address and surname were removed so that she does not get spammed]
Re: HAVEAWOMANDOIT.COM (sent 03/04/10)?
From: Warner (warner@thedomaininvestors.com)
Sent: Fri 3/05/10 1:03 PM
To: katie
It’s a big risk to proceed without professional valuation. I already spoke
to industry experts and they prohibited me to do business without
valuation..
Without manual valuation nobody will buy. You’ll sit on your domain for
years in this case, paying renewal fees to your registrar. Just think about
it. So sooner or later, you’ll have to obtain an appraisal. Why waste time
now?
As a seller, you can use a valuation certificate to sell names to other
buyers. I cannot do the same because I don’t keep control over your domain.
I’m still interested in your domain. Hope you’ll change your position. I
simply don’t want to take additional risks.
Thank you for understanding. I’m looking forward to do business with you.
—– Original Message —–
From: katie
To: warner@thedomaininvestors.com
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 4:44 PM
Subject: RE: HAVEAWOMANDOIT.COM (sent 03/04/10)
Mr. Warner,
I appreciate you interest in HAVEAWOMANDOIT.COM. I’m not opposed to selling, I’m just not interested in purchasing an appraisal at this time.
Sincerely,
Katie
From: warner@thedomaininvestors.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: HAVEAWOMANDOIT.COM (sent 03/04/10)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:47:04 +0300
It’s a standard practice to show independent valuation to buyers/resellers.
Nobody will do business without it. I’m a businessman and have no intention
of changing rules which help both parties to avoid additional risks.
Of course, investors never take into account auto-generated valuations. So
manual valuation is a “must” too.
I read the following information about appraisals at:
http://www.domainexplorer.org/Archive/75142903.htm
Without the independent valuation from a trusted source we don’t spend a
penny. This is our financial policy. So our offer is just a rought estimate.
If the appraisal comes higher we are ready to offer a bit more. If it comes
lower we will discuss the price with you again.
Thank you for understanding. I’m looking forward to do business with you.
Hope we can come to an agreement fast because I’ll be on vacation soon.
—– Original Message —–
From: katie
To: warner@thedomaininvestors.com
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 6:19 AM
Subject: RE: HAVEAWOMANDOIT.COM (sent 03/04/10)
I have not had my domain name evaluated, but I will be happy to do so. Please provide me with the names of 3 or 4 of the independent sources that you and your partners trust!
Thank you!
From: warner@thedomaininvestors.com
To: katie
Subject: Re: HAVEAWOMANDOIT.COM (sent 03/04/10)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 02:26:20 +0300
Can you accept 5,000 USD?
Do you sell domain with a web site or just the name?
Domain without content is ok with me. Web site is not necessary.
Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain appraisals. Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It’s very important for me in terms of reselling too. But we must engage a valuation company with REAL manual service. So I will only accept valuations from independent sources I and my partners trust.
To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies.
Please check this blog with suggestions from other sellers and buyers:
http://www.domainexplorer.org/Archive/75142903.htm
If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% – 15% discount.
After you send me the valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to obtain it) we’ll continue our negotiations.
What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire transfer, PayPal.com or something else?
Hope we can come to an agreement fast.
Looking forward to your reply.
—– Original Message —–
From: katie
To: warner@thedomaininvestors.com
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 9:30 PM
Subject: RE: HAVEAWOMANDOIT.COM (sent 03/04/10)
what is you offer?
From: warner@thedomaininvestors.com
To: katie
Subject: HAVEAWOMANDOIT.COM (sent 03/04/10)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 05:46:32 -0500
Hello,
We buy and sell domains and web pr®jects. What is your price for the domain?
If you have other domains for sale feel free to send your list.
Looking forward to do business with you.
Regards,
Robert Warner
CEO
Warner Internet Investment LLC
========================================================
NOTICE – This communication may contain confidential and privileged
information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by
unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message
and deleting it from your computer.
========================================================