That Danny!
If you want to skip the background scroll down to my entertaining correspondence with the scammer, as he tries to hook me in.
Sedo is a service that allows owners of domain names to sell them in much the same way that eBay allows you to sell goods, either for a fixed price or at auction. It also provides an escrow service so that a transaction is secure (they get the money and the domain and then swap them between buyer and seller).
Domain sellers on Sedo have recently been targeted in the following way:
1. The seller places a domain for sale on Sedo.
2. The scammer scans Sedo for new domain listings and targets those listings.
3. The seller receives an email from the scammer. An important characteristic of this email is that it is not via the Sedo service – the scammer looks up the registered owner of the domain and contacts them directly through the domain’s contact email.
4. This first email is the “hook”. It offers a large sum of money for the domain and waits for the domain owner to take the bait.
5. Once the domain owner shows an interest, the scammer explains that he is very interested in the domain but cannot pay any money for it without a third party valuation service. He explains that he has researched valuation services and only a few are reliable and cost-effective. Gradually he narrows it down to one service that he insists on using.
6. If the buyer bites (what’s a small sum to pay for the riches offered by the scammer?), then they will pay for the valuation service and submit the result to the scammer.
7. At this point the scammer no longer responds to emails. They got what they wanted – the valuation fee.
Here’s my correspondence with the scammer:
Email #1 – the bait:
================================================
From: murphy@eliteinvestment.net
To: danny
Subject: [my domain name for sale (date sent)]
Hello,
I’m interested in your domain in the subject line.
Investing in domains is a profitable business. We are in real estate business. Sometimes we buy, sometimes we resell for making a profit.
Looking forward to do business with you.
Regards,
Andrew Murphy
Vice President
Elite Investment Group
================================================
Commentary:
- Notice how there is no mention of where this company (“Elite Investment Group”) is based. I will press this point with “Andrew Murphy” later, but he wouldn’t respond.
- At the time of writing there was no content in the domain that the email originates from (eliteinvestment.net)
- Further research shows that eliteinvestment.net is registered by Proxy, so the owners obviously want to hide who they are.
Email #2 – I bite:
================================================
From: “Danny”
To: Murphy
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
Thanks, are you wishing to make an offer on my domain?
Email #3 – Trap is laid out:
================================================
From: Murphy
To: Danny
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
Sorry for delay with answer. Our family was celebrating newborn child of my sister.
Can you accept 5,000 USD?
Do you sell domain with a web site or just the name?
Domain without content is ok with me. Web site is not necessary.
Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain appraisals. Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It’s
very
important for me in terms of reselling too. But we must engage a valuation company with REAL manual service. So I will only accept valuations from independent sources I and my partners trust.
To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies.
Please check this blog with suggestions from other sellers and buyers: http://domainblog.007sites.com/587412.htm
If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% – 15% discount.
After you send me the valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to obtain it) we’ll continue our negotiations.
What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire transfer, PayPal.com or something else?
Hope we can come to an agreement fast.
Looking forward to your reply.
================================================
Commentary:
- Notice how the scammer tries to lead you to believe he relies on reputable companies by sending you to an obviously planted forum.
- The company he wants you to focus on is www.DomainExplorer.org – but he will narrow it down to that company later. For now he wants you to think the name of the actual valuation company doesn’t matter. He just needs a reputable one.
- Notice that he is also talking about methods of payment to lure you in.
- Interestingly, the grammar is a bit wonky and inconsistent, which suggests this ‘script’ was adapted and ‘perfected’ by different people.
Email #4 – I test his determination
================================================
From: “Danny”
To: “‘Murphy’”
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
I only transact through Sedo, and do not require the use of appraisal companies who are usually just a scam.
If you would like to buy this domain I would encourage you to put an offer through on the Sedo site.
Thank you and have a good weekend!
Danny.
Email #5 – He responds and refocuses on the appraisal :
================================================
From: Murphy
To: Danny
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
Sedo is a good broker and we can use it for transfer/transaction. Unfortunately , Sedo is not acceptable as an appraiser because your names are listed with them and they are not independent. They are interested in earning 10% commission on every sale. I need appraisals from a company which is not interested in selling your domains.
I heard many appraisal companies often made inaccurate appraisals. So I cannot accept appraisal from each and every site. I will only accept appraisals from independent appraisal companies I know and trust.
================================================
Commentary:
- He persists, because I engaged. As long as I am engaged, there is still a chance to hook me.
- Notice how I didn’t mention domain appraisal services, but he keeps coming back to that point, as if it was a crucial part of domain sales. In actual fact, a domain is worth what a seller is willing to pay for it, and oftentimes pricing it is more of an art than a science, with a mix of luck.
Email #6 – I don’t bite. What will he do?
================================================
From: “Danny”
To: ‘Murphy’
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
I thank you for your response, but I have no interest in these appraisal services, or in doing business with you this way. If you wish to place a bid on my domain you are welcome to do so on the Sedo site.
Regards for a good weekend,
Danny.
Email #7 – It’s all about the valuation, of course, but let’s narrow it down:
================================================
From: Murphy
To: Danny
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
We both need independent valuation first.
Sellers always provide buyers with valuations. This is a common practice.
I don’t trust $14 services like that GoDaddy’s valuation service. Nobody will do a research for $14. We need a real manual service.
I researched several companies and here are the results:
I wanted to engage AccurateDomains.com as appraiser but looks like this company has very bad reputation Just read this blog http://accuratedomains.blogspot.com/
So I’m not going to accept this fraudulent service.
I also considered www.Afternic.com, but now it’s clear their service is not reliable enough. Just read this: http://www.igoldrush.com/links3.htm “Capsule Review: After lots of complaints, Afternic is no longer a recommended service. We will re-review the service in the near future.”
Another complaint http://www.out-law.com/page-1630
I was told about manual research service from http://www.DomainMart.com. It costs – $200/hour.
Many experienced sellers suggested me www.DomainExplorer.org as a trustworth manual service. They charge per name not per hour. I’ve read only positive comments about them.
================================================
Commentary:
- He seems to go back to the script. This is the mail he would use to narrow the victim down to domainexploere.org, where he wants me to go.
- I decide to repeat my previous email exactly and see if he would notice.
Email #8 – I repeat myself, will he notice?:
================================================
From: “Danny”
To: “‘Murphy’”
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
I thank you for your response, but I have no interest in these appraisal services, or in doing business with you this way. If you wish to place a bid on my domain you are welcome to do so on the Sedo site.
Regards,
Danny.
Email #9 – He keeps going… It’s all about the valuation:
================================================
From: Murphy
To: Danny
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
It’s a big risk to proceed without professional valuation. I already spoke to industry experts and they prohibited me to do business without valuation.
Without manual valuation nobody will buy. You’ll sit on your domain for years in this case, paying renewal fees to your registrar. Just think about it. So sooner or later, you’ll have to obtain an appraisal. Why waste time now?
As a seller, you can use a valuation certificate to sell names to other buyers. I cannot do the same because I don’t keep control over your domain.
I’m still interested in your domain. Hope you’ll change your position. I simply don’t want to take additional risks.
Thank you for understanding. I’m looking forward to do business with you.
Email #10 – I decide to confront him:
================================================
From: Danny
To: “‘Murphy’”
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
For someone in the domain reselling business you seem awfully focussed on the appraisal of one specific company whose domain is registered via proxy and that does not have a physical address, and appears on several scam warnings.
You also never mentioned where your company (elite Investment) is registered, and your own domain isn’t populated.
Entertaining. Care to comment?
Regards,
Danny.
Email #11- This is clearly off script – so he sends one last ditch (none of my questions are answered):
================================================
From: Murphy
To: Danny
Subject: [domain name (date sent)]
No deal without appraisal from a trusted source. This simple rule has saved me a lot of money and time. Feel free to contact me when you change your position and let’s do business the right way.
================================================
FURTHER SCAM INFORMATION
This pattern has been repeated in quite a few cases, but with changing names, often using the same script, for example: the same scam email (with the same text) was sent from:
Robert Gardos, CEO Elite Investment
Steven Campanella, Vice President, Elite Investment Group
Paul Rancour, CEO, ELI LLC
Eric Jorgensen, Vice President, Elite Invest Network
Tom Myers, ‘Independent Cybersquatter’
Jeffrey Burnstein, CEO of OBS LLC (burnstein@theonlinebrokerage.com)
(source).
Robert Gardos, VP, TGS Technologies (gardos@toughguy.net) (source)
Further examples are here, here , here and here.
SEDO’S RESPONSE:
I wrote to Sedo saying: “I was wondering if you were aware of this sort of scam happening, and if so, whether you would consider placing some kind of warning for other users of your site. It can be very easily misleading.”
Their response was:
“We are aware that there are unscrupulous persons around who will contact domain owners to try and get them to order an appraisal or sell the domain.
At Sedo, we encourage customers to use our appraisal service which is much more trustworthy.
You can always privacy protect the WHOIS record for your domain to avoid receiving these kind of emails in the future. You can do this through your registrar.”
So, no, they don’t really think they should warn their users, and simply suggest we use their services. Doh!
If you have been contacted in this way feel free to add your experience here as a comment, especially noting the names used in your case, so that they come up in Google searches and warn others.
If you enjoyed this article, please consider sharing it!
Here’s my email trail so far and thanks, I haddn’t actualy worked out it was the appraisal that was the scam, I was expecting to have to pay them the 15% before I got my $15,000, Thankfuly the rat was smelt…. shame I’ve already paid SEDO for their appraisal… would it be too foolish to suggest that they don’t highlight the scam as they themselves don’t do too bad out of it? Any how enjoy:-
Michael,
Like I said below,
Sedo.com
You Quote ” So I accept real manual appraisals from trusted sources only”
Then point me to some ‘here say’ sources.
Sedo.com is a manual and trusted source.
Therefor if it takes 7 days then that’s what it takes – you are quite welcome to obtain your own appraisal but I will not be bullied into using a service that I know nothing about just to fast track a sale.
You start off asking me how much I wish to sell my domain for, I tell you.
You then you come back with an offer which far exceeds what I originally wanted…
I accepted, you then tell me that wasn’t a real offer just a rough estimate until I get an appraisal. So I then order an appraisal at my cost and now you’re telling me its not fast enough!
Look! The appraisal will take as long as it takes, if you’re not willing to wait that long then you either take it at $15,000 or I will bid you good day and walk away.
Speaking of trusted sources, I did ask that you place todays date in the subject line to prove that I am talking to a real person. If you reply to me again would you please do so.
Regards
—–Original Message—–
From: Michael Kogan [mailto:president@name-boutique.com]
Sent: 27 October 2011 16:20
To:
Subject: Re: thedomaininquestion.com
3-7 days? Where did you order it. CDV has 24 hours delivery. I will not wait for 7 days
—– Original Message —–
From:
To: “Michael Kogan”
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:56 PM
Subject: RE: thedomaininquestion.com
OK No problems I have applied for one now so I’ll wait to see what it says and come back to you.
I have already asked sedo.com as they are the company my host recommends and as I don’t know these others .
As it’s a manual service they say it will take 3-7days so I’ll come back to you once I have the result.
Regards
—–Original Message—–
From: Michael Kogan [mailto:president@name-boutique.com]
Sent: 27 October 2011 15:21
To:
Subject: Re: thedomaininquestion.com
As a seller you should provide me with an appraisal first. This is a reasonable practice.
I’ve found not all the appraisals are accurate. So I accept real manual appraisals from trusted sources only.
I don’t trust $14-$20 services. Nobody will do a research for $14. We need a real manual service.
As to the most known brands: the more orders the company gets, the less time they can afford to spend on each appraisal.
I wanted to use AccurateDomains.com or Afternic.com but looks like this company has a bad reputation. Afternic’s appraisal service has a lot of bad reviews.
I was told about manual research service from http://www.DomainMart.com. It costs – $200/hour.
Many experienced sellers suggested us http://www.CertifieddomainValue.com/
as a trustworth manual service. They charge about 50 eur name not per hour.
We’ve read only positive comments about them. And I have my own positive experience with this company and their support.
—– Original Message —–
From:
To: “Michael Kogan”
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 5:46 PM
Subject: RE: thedomaininquestion.com
OK, I’m new to all this. I just thought if you make an offer and I accept it
then that was it.
I have now applied for the domain to be appraised with sedo.com whom I
believe to be a
reputable company to use.
Regards
—–Original Message—–
From: Michael Kogan [mailto:president@name-boutique.com]
Sent: 25 October 2011 22:18
To:
Subject: Re: thedomaininquestion.com
I see, but it’s a standard practice to show independent valuation to
buyers/resellers. Nobody will do business without it. I’m a businessman and
have no intention of changing rules which help both parties to avoid
additional risks.
Of course, investors never take into account auto-generated valuations. So
manual valuation is a “must” too.
I read the following information about appraisals at
http://www.thenamepros.com/Archive/964725093.htm
Without the independent valuation from a trusted source we don’t spend a
penny. This is our financial policy. So our offer is just a rought estimate.
If the appraisal comes higher we are ready to offer a bit more. If it comes
lower we will discuss the price with you again.
Thank you for understanding. I’m looking forward to doing business with you.
—– Original Message —–
From:
To: “Michael Kogan”
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:53 PM
Subject: RE: thedomaininquestion.com
Yes I would be happy to accept 15,000 USD for that domain.
No I’ve not had the domain evaluated but I’m happy to sell at 15,000 USD
less your 15% discount so £12750 and 50/50 escrow fee
Its just the domain, I had an idea for a site but I never got round to it…
so its now just a well-established domain.
I’m happy to use escrow.com, if you let me know the email address you wish
the escrow to use I’ll set up the transaction now,
I also have the .co.uk would you be interested in making an offer on that as
well?
Just to be sure I’m not dealing with an automated response on your next
reply would you also please include todays date in the subject.
Regards
—–Original Message—–
From: Michael Kogan [mailto:president@name-boutique.com]
Sent: 25 October 2011 13:30
To:
Subject: Re: thedomaininquestion.com
What do you think about 15,000 USD for your domain name?
Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain
appraisals. Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It’s very
important for me in terms of reselling too. But we must engage a valuation
company with REAL manual service. So I will only accept valuations from
independent sources I and my partners trust.
To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal
companies. Please check this blog with suggestions from other sellers and
buyers:
http://www.thenamepros.com/Archive/964725093.htm
Do you sell domain with a web site or just the name?
Domain without content is ok with me. Web site is not necessary.
If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price
accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% – 15%
discount.
After you send me the valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to
obtain it) we’ll continue our negotiations.
What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire
transfer, PayPal.com or something else?
Hope we can come to an agreement fast.
Looking forward to your reply.
—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: thedomaininquestion.com
> Hello,
> My current portfolio of saleable domains are below,
> All domains are priced at GBP 2000 which at the moment works out at about
> USD 3196 or EUR 2295
> I will consider a reduces offer, especially when purchasing .co.uk and
> .com
> together
> All transferred will be done through sedo’s escrow service.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
(I’ve removed the domains)
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: president@name-boutique.com [mailto:president@name-boutique.com]
> Sent: 23 October 2011 06:12
> To:
> Subject: re: thedomaininquestion.com
>
> Hello,
>
> We are interested in purchasing your domain name.
>
> Our company is in hosting and domain name business.
>
> Please email us your desired price in USD or euros for the domain name in
> the subject line.
>
> If you have other names for sale please email us your domains with prices.
>
> Looking forward to doing business with you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Kogan
>
> President
>
> Name Investment Boutique LLC
> ========================================================
> NOTICE – This communication may contain confidential and privileged
> information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
> viewing,
> copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by unintended
> recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in
> error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and
> deleting
> it from your computer.
> ========================================================
>
>
i recently got a mail from Aaron Trachtenberg,
n Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 7:33 PM, wrote:
Hello,
We are interested in purchasing your domain name.
Our company is in hosting and domain name business.
Please email us your desired price in USD or euros for the domain name in the subject line.
If you have other names for sale please email us your domains with prices.
Looking forward to doing business with you.
Regards,
Aaron Trachtenberg
President
Domain Boutique
I received the same e-mail from these guys. I understood quickly that this was scam and I was talking to a robot who was above average interested in Domain appraisal firms.
From: “joshua-adelman@domain-hosting-service.com”
To: bharathptl@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 10:02 PM
Subject: re: emusex.com
Hello,
We want to purchase your domain.
Our company is in hosting and domain name business.
Please email us your desired price in USD or euros for the domain name in the subject line.
If you have other names for sale please email us your domains with prices.
Looking forward to doing business with you.
Regards,
Joshua Adelman
CEO
Domain Investment Group Inc
========================================================
NOTICE – This communication may contain confidential and privileged
information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by
unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message
and deleting it from your computer.
========================================================
After i given a offer of $8000, I got reply
From: “joshua-adelman@domain-hosting-service.com”
It’s a big risk to proceed without professional valuation. I already spoke
to industry experts and they prohibited me to do business without
valuation..
Without manual valuation nobody will buy. You’ll sit on your domain for
years in this case, paying renewal fees to your registrar. Just think about
it. So sooner or later, you’ll have to obtain an appraisal. Why waste time
now?
As a seller, you can use a valuation certificate to sell names to other
buyers. I cannot do the same because I don’t keep control over your domain.
I’m still interested in your domain. Hope you’ll change your position. I
simply don’t want to take additional risks.
Thank you for understanding. I’m looking forward to doing business with you.
Any ways you save my life…. thanku
i have one more spimer with to same text was writed here .
joshua-adelman@domain-hosting-service.com
Saus. 3 d. (Prieš 2 dien.)
skirta man
Hello,
We want to purchase your domain.
Our company is in hosting and domain name business.
Please email us your desired price in USD or euros for the domain name in the subject line.
If you have other names for sale please email us your domains with prices.
Looking forward to doing business with you.
Regards,
Joshua Adelman
CEO
Domain Investment Group Inc
and here:
Joshua Adelman joshua-adelman@domain-hosting-service.com
14:07 (Prieš 3 val.)
skirta man
It’s a big risk to proceed without professional valuation. I already spoke
to industry experts and they prohibited me to do business without
valuation..
Without manual valuation nobody will buy. You’ll sit on your domain for
years in this case, paying renewal fees to your registrar. Just think about
it. So sooner or later, you’ll have to obtain an appraisal. Why waste time
now?
As a seller, you can use a valuation certificate to sell names to other
buyers. I cannot do the same because I don’t keep control over your domain.
I’m still interested in your domain. Hope you’ll change your position. I
simply don’t want to take additional risks.
so be a atention this is to same spamer.
i got almost the same e-mail from jacob-brenner@domain-hosting-shop.com, i’ll copy them below:
First email
————————————————-
Hello,
I noticed that you currently sell this domain. I want to buy your domain name.
Please send me your desired price in USD or euros for the domain name in the subject line.
If you have other names for sale please email me your domains with prices.
I’m looking forward to doing business with you.
Regards,
Jacob Brenner
Independent Domain Investor
========================================================
NOTICE – This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
========================================================
Second e-mail
————————————————-
What do you think about 10,000 USD for your domain name?
Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain appraisals. Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It’s very important for me in terms of reselling too. But we must engage a valuation company with REAL manual service. So I will only accept valuations from independent sources I and my partners trust.
To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies. Please check this blog with suggestions from other sellers and buyers:
http://www.forum-windows-club.com/Archive/846592108.htm
Do you sell domain with a web site or just the name?
Domain without content is ok with me. Web site is not necessary.
If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% – 15% discount.
After you send me the valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to obtain it) we’ll continue our negotiations.
What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire transfer, PayPal.com or something else?
Hope we can come to an agreement fast.
Looking forward to your reply.